Living "I DO" Beyond the Vows

What does it truly mean to honor the vow "in sickness and in health"?. In this powerful episode Dr. C sits down with Kareem and Brandi Hayes to explore their harrowing yet miraculous journey through a sudden medical crisis, emergency open-heart surgery, and a five-day coma.

Through the lens of the LIFE Blueprint (Learn, Inspire, Flourish, Evolve), the Hayes family shares how they navigated the "medical maze," mitigated the burnout of a life-altering diagnosis, and redefined their partnership when roles shifted from spouse to caregiver. Whether you are currently facing a health battle or looking to strengthen your relationship's foundation before the storm hits, this conversation offers raw insights into resilience, advocacy, and the dimensions of wellness.

What you’ll learn:

*The Power of Advocacy: How Brandi navigate misdiagnoses—from acid reflux to congestive heart failure—and how you can find your voice in the medical system.
* Maintaining Connection in the Dark: Kareem’s perspective on recurring dreams during his coma and the "non-verbal intimacy" techniques Brandi used to stay tethered to him.
* The "Gatekeeper Strategy": Practical tools for managing an overwhelming support network and setting boundaries to prevent caregiver burnout.
* The Parental Pillar: How to use "age-appropriate transparency" to help children feel secure during a family crisis.
* Evolving the "New Normal": Re-negotiating household roles and letting go of ego to allow for deep, collective healing.

About Dr. C & The LIFE Podcast: Dr. C is a seasoned consultant and former nonprofit executive with over 25 years of experience mastering organizational change. She developed The LIFE Blueprint™ as a signature method for sustainable high performance and well-being. Her work bridges the critical gaps for organizational alignment, helping leaders and teams mitigate burnout and achieve harmony across the 8 dimensions of wellness. Subscribe and follow the LIFE Podcast today to ensure you never miss an insight on your journey to wellness!

Transcript

Dr C 0:07

Hola Brandy and Kareem. I'm so honored to have you here in the live podcast. Thank you. Thank you for agreeing to be part of the show.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Thank you for having us. We feel so blessed and honored to be on your podcast.

Dr C 0:21

Well, it the blessing is um going to be for all the listeners of the podcast today, I'm sure. And so we're gonna we're gonna jump right in, right? Because in the life blueprint, we always start with the learn with learning. And so before we can understand how you survive the storm, we must understand the foundation that you built before the clouds even started to gather. So every legacy has a beginning, and yours is rooted in a partnership that predates your medical crisis. So you both have built a beautiful family with Chloe and KJ and recently celebrated your 14th wedding anniversary. Correct. So congratulations! Thank you. Thank you. So, how would you describe the vibe or personality of the Hayes household before the medical crisis began?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

You know, we really like to have a I think a pretty fun house. We also have two dogs as well, Coco and Winston. And those dogs light a fire in some of us because of what they do and shouldn't be doing in the house.

Dr C 1:25

So uh sounds like the dogs keep everything interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

Yes, that's an understatement.

Dr C 1:32

I love that. So, Kareem, take us back to the moment when you knew like Brandy was the one, right? How did you ask Brandy to marry you?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Wow, so did we go for a walk? We went for a lot of walks back then.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

No, we were actually in our apartment.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

You were in our apartment, yes, and I I can't remember if I got down on what you didn't, I did not. Okay, so I was non-traditional everybody. Very and so I asked her, I was like, Hey, you want to get married? And what was your response?

SPEAKER_05 2:04

I was like, what now expecting that, you know? I I was a traditionalist, right? So I was waiting for the whole pomp and circus, you know, him getting down on one niece, planning a very special, elaborate, romantic, you know, way of asking me to marry him. And when he just kind of came because it came out of nowhere. And I was like, What? Oh, I said, Well, yeah, I mean, you want to get married, get married. That's amazing. I will say though, really quickly, he did come back because he knew that I missed out on that moment. So I don't, I can't remember if it was for my birthday or near our anniversary, but he got some of our very close friends and family at next door, the restaurant by Weg by Wegmans, and he actually re-proposed to me, like got down on one knee and re-proposed to me in front of our close friends.

Dr C 3:01

Okay, Kareem. So you can't correct. It took you a minute, but you can't correct. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

She missed one part though.

Dr C 3:09

What?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

And I had a ring up a ring upgrade. Oh, yes. Okay, okay.

Dr C 3:14

The upgrade's always good. We're not gonna we're not gonna say no to the upgrades. So I'm thinking that you already established a foundation of how you were gonna interact with each other, you know. As Kareem said, you know, I'm putting my full investment into this now, right? And so, Kareem, let's let's talk about the pivotal moment when everything shifted. Now, here we are about 10, 12, 13 years later. What were the first signs that something was wrong with you medically? And how quickly did you move from like the initial diagnosis to the operating room?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

So, first thing was it was during the pandemic, and I noticed something might have been wrong because I was here and I was trying to work out. So we got like some hand weights and stuff like that in our house to be able to get moving around, right? Get some exercise in. And I was doing like some sort of chest exercise, and then all of a sudden, like my chest started aching a little bit, and I was like, why is my chest aching? And so, because I felt like I was young and vibrant and healthy in a sense, that you know what, it's all right. But of course, my wife, who is like the supreme healthcare professional, was like, you really should go get that check. So my doctor at the time, who's retired, he was like, Alright, we're gonna get some testing done. And when we got the testing done, he was like, When's the last time you got this done? I was like, Oh, it's been a minute. Like, I haven't got my heart checked because it's not really something that you get checked unless something is going on for you to get it checked.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

So got it checked, and he was like, Yeah, we're gonna have to monitor this a little bit. It looks like you have a small aneurysm. And at the time, the aneurysm wasn't at a point where it could be lethal. And then hopefully, in my mind, I was like, Well, hopefully this will go away. Well, it didn't go away, it actually got bigger.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

So he was very, very close to having that aneurysm. So basically, the bigger the aneurysm, the more likely that it's going to rupture. And Corinne was very close and having it rupture. Medical PA pressed him to go get an MRI. Kareen was dragging his feet. I was on him, like, why don't I'm like, you need to get this done. So then, because she called him multiple times, and I said, honey, usually providers do not call you like that unless they have a significant cause or concern and they really want you to get this done. So I said, something I think is pretty serious going on. So, needless to say, he went and got the MRI, immediately scheduled him to go see a cardiac cardiothoracic surgeon. The surgeon showed us that picture with the measurements for the valves. And then he was like, Listen, if it ruptures, you're basically dead. There's nothing that I can do. I mean, he came, he's very, a very blunt surgeon. And so he said, There's nothing we're gonna be able to do, so you're gonna need to get this done, AC. Because I was like, I'm about to lose my husband. Like, this could rupture at any point. So that's when he had the first surgery in March. So he recovered from that. Fast forward to our anniversary 2025. Kareem started to feel really, really bad. I think the second night that we got there. And I said, Something's going on with you. We need to figure out what's happening. So when we were walking, he was out of breath. He had to take multiple breaks. I said, This is not like you because we are normally walkers, we walk everywhere, especially when we're in metropolitan cities. We love to walk. So that's one of our favorite pastimes to do. And I said, Something's wrong when you can't even walk, not even from the hotel entrance to literally the corner. He was out of breath. And so I said, We need to get a test. So I said we're going by the three and one test, the COVID flu A and flu B. We went to five guys. I had him take the test right then. So he took the test, flu B lit up like a Christmas tree. And I said, See, I told you something's wrong. So he was like, Yeah, I think that's probably why. But he was coughing too. He had this cough that he developed. We went to urgent care, and it's crazy trying to get medical care out of your home state. So that's just a different story for a different day. But they confirmed that he had flu B. We had to walk to the CBS to get the Tamil flu because he was like on the last day for him to be able to get the Tamil flu. We got that. We actually had reservations at Georgia Brown's. So we went back to the hotel, dropped off the medication, went to Georgia Brown's to have our anniversary dinner. And then we went back to the hotel, and Cream was basically done for like the rest of the trip. So, really, we didn't even get a chance to truly celebrate our anniversary. But after that, Kareem started developing this very severe cough, and that was going on for a while. So his doctors were saying, Oh, you know, it's probably just the residue of the cold, like it should be able to go away in the next couple of months. He still had this cough. Then it transitioned to, well, he has acid reflux. He said, So they tried him on acid reflux. Then they thought he may have asthma. So they tried him on an inhaler. I said, honey, something's wrong. You're still coughing, you're out of breath. And at that point, he started to develop swelling in his legs and his feet. And when I say they look like thick sausages, they were extremely swollen. His ankles were swollen, his feet were swollen, parts of his thighs and abdomen were swollen. I said, something's going on here. And this is more than just a cough. And so I pushed him because I said something's got to be done because I was getting very frustrated. I said, something has to be done. So I need you to schedule an appointment with your doctor. I'm going to try to find you a new one because they're clearly not doing their job because something's going on. So he scheduled a telehealth visit. I told him I wanted to be a part of it. So I joined the visit. She said, Oh, it's just a severe case of acid reflux. I'm going to give you this medicine. And then you come back and follow up with us. And I said, Can I say something, please? Because Kareem told me to behave for this telehealth visit. I said, Can I say something? I said, Listen, this is the this is my husband and the father of my two children. And I said, I know when something is wrong. This is not his baseline. He's never had asthma. His family does. There's no history of asthma in the family on both sides. I said, he has swelling in his legs and feet. And I'm asking you to please get him either a CT scan or blood work because I really feel that it's going to show us what's really going on with my husband. And I said, I care too much about him to have him continue to do this, and there's no resolve. I said, you guys gave him all these medications, this inhaler, and nothing has resolved for almost six months, six, seven months at that point. So no, yes, yes. It started our anniversary is in February. He started going to the doctor in March. So from March into August, he was dealing with this severe cough. And then this the swelling in his feet started in July because that I remember we had took Chloe to Philly for her birthday, and the swelling started then. So I said, something's going on. So needless to say, he gets the she was agreeable, and we get the results of the blood work. They told him to go to emergency because they're concerned that he may have blood clots, and the blood clots could possibly be around his heart. So he goes to emergency. I meet him there. The emergency doctor comes out and she's like, Oh, yeah. So some of your other blood work came back normal, but your blood work for, and I can't remember the exact medical condition was looking into, but essentially it was around the heart. And she said, the typical numbers for that is 300, and yours is 3,000. And I said, Okay. And she said, So that's an indication that you are in congestive heart failure. I said, wait a minute.

Dr C 10:59

My goodness.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

I said, are you serious? And she said, yes. It's indicating that there's some congestive or heart failure. He's in heart failure. And so I'm like tearing up because I'm like, I knew something was wrong. And had I not asked for that CT scan in the blood work, this could be significantly worse. So news don't even get worse from there, right? Or it doesn't get better, it gets worse. So they had taken him to get a CT scan. She said, Oh yeah, so you know, you need to follow with your doctor about the heart failure, but we need to talk about something else that had come up on your CT scan. We're going to take you in the back. I said, Cream, they never take us in the back unless there's something significantly wrong. And so she took us in the back and she said, Well, there's a mass in your chest. She like came out and said, There's a mass in your chest, and potentially it could be cancer. I said, wait a minute. So we go from, and I'm sorry, this part takes a takes up a lot because I think people really need to understand the significant medical challenges that he was facing, also the differentiation in the diagnosis that he was receiving, which impacted his care overall. Okay. So she said, You have a mask in your chest. You're going to be meeting hopefully with an oncologist to determine if this is indeed the cancer. So they're going to need to do a biopsy. And then usually with treatment, this should resolve. So I'm like, wait a minute. We go from a cough from flu B to a cough to acid reflux to then asthma to then a severe case of acid reflux to congestive heart failure. And then now you're telling me that my husband has cancer, potentially has cancer.

Dr C 12:32

Oh my gosh. And a mass at that.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

A mass and a significant mass. She said it wasn't small. It was significant. So they decided to discharge him home, thankfully, because he then got additional blood work. They then sent him back to emergency. The doctors at a different hospital stated, no, you don't have a mass in your chest. What you're seeing is a suetoaneurism. And so essentially he had a mass in his chest that from the valve, a part of the valve, actually swelled up like the first surgery or from the first diagnosis when he had his first open heart surgery. But it was because something was amiss there, right? It wasn't the typical aneurysm that he had when he first got the first open heart surgery. So I said, wait a minute, because they told us it was cancer. They said, no, this is not cancer. This is an aneurysm that is presenting like uh cancer or a mask, but because the mass had gotten so large, it looked like cancer. And it was actually way bigger than the one that he had when he first got the open heart surgery. In fact, we saw two cardiothoracic surges because then I had to advocate. And they were buddies. Yeah, I had to advocate to get him seen sooner because they were talking about almost two, three weeks out. I said, No, my husband doesn't have that type of time. So I'm literally on the phone with different providers at that point, trying to get him in to be seen. So that's when they schedule him to see a provider at Strong and then a provider at Rochester Regional. And our initial provider is at Rochester Regional. So we met with him, the first provider, he said, Yeah, you have a asuato aneurysm. If you don't have this taken care of, you will die. That's exactly what he said. Then we went to go see his initial surgeon. He said the same thing. He said, We can try to get you in, but I'm going to be on vacation the next week. So we won't be able to do it. Then I said, So, what are we supposed to do? I said, This could rupture at any point. He had to wait. And mind you, they did discharge him from the hospital. They didn't even keep him there to try to monitor him. They actually discharged him because they said it was it was there for a period of time. And so there's nothing that they can do. You have to see the cardiothoracic surgeon. So we see his initial surgeon. We decided to go with him again. He scheduled like that set that next week that he got back, and then here we are, second open heart surgery. They actually had to admit him to a day earlier because they placed him on diuretics to try to get rid of the fluid. Kareem lost within 20 less than 24 hours, close to 25 pounds of water fluid on him.

Dr C 15:05

So that's how swollen he was, huh?

SPEAKER_05 15:08

Yes.

Dr C 15:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

It still was swollen, but they were trying to maximize him as and optimize him as much as possible for the surgery.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:15

So yeah. And then we had the second open heart surgery, which led to all the things. Yeah, all the things.

Dr C 15:23

Well, I mean, and Kareem, I'm sure when you think back, right, and you kind of we always we always kind of go through this the film, right? Of what happened. I'm sure in the moment you may have been frustrated and scared, but you're here and alive because of that advocacy. And so the reason why I'm just making that point is a lot of times we don't know what to ask, and fear sets in and we become paralyzed. And this is why it's so important for us to have community, for us to have a network, for us to have someone that we could trust. Um, it doesn't have to be your partner, but we do need someone with us in these moments when we're hearing that we may have a medical crisis because you shut down, you become paralyzed, right? And so thankfully, you had Brandy and Brandy. You know, you went from the expert, right? A social worker giving answers to people, helping people through their process, and now you become an advocate. Right. So now you're no longer the expert in the room, although you bring your expertise, but now you're the fierce advocate pushing back and saying, Hold on a minute, right? This is my husband, this is our livelihood you're talking about. And if you would not have been so insistent, we don't know what would have happened, right? And so I thank you for that. And also I want our listeners to understand it's okay, it's okay to push back, it's okay to ask questions because what you described is really like a diagnostic shift, right? You had hard, cold, hard facts of a medical crisis, but those facts alone also don't get us through the night. So this brings us to our inspire code where it's the breath that keeps us going. So when the data looks bleak, so if you think about what you were being told, it was touch and go. We didn't really know what was going to happen once Kareem went under right the knife, as they say. So I want to shift from the clinical maze to the spiritual and emotional anchors that kept your spirits from drifting while you were waiting for a miracle, literally waiting for a miracle. So, Kareem, let's start with you.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

Okay.

Dr C 17:34

During our planning session, you mentioned that you were having a recurring recurring dreams while you were in your coma. Can you share what those were like?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, so I had quite a few recurring dreams. So the first one was I would have like a regular dream. So I would just kind of be somewhere. I think I was like at a football game. I was like, I guess things that were kind of that happened in my life already. I didn't see a light, so I will say that.

Dr C 18:03

Thank God. I know that's right.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

So it wasn't that, and then it would go, it was like I was trying to get out of this like maze of darkness. So it was it felt like a it was like a pattern, thick black paper, but it was like a patterned paper, and it was like I was like kind of moving like through it, and then I would go back to whatever that recurring dream was. Then, and I think this is when from what Brandy was telling me, when I kind of started to come to, I would also have this recurring dream of a nurse talking to me. And I kept thinking to myself, like, why is this nurse talking to me? And she would ask me questions, and it would be like, Hey, what's your name? Or hey, cream, can you hear us? She didn't say my ask my name, they did that later. Hey, can you hear us? Do you know where you are right now? And I couldn't talk. Like, that's what I remember. Like, I couldn't talk because I didn't realize at the time I was intubated.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

So, but I didn't feel that because I was in like dream state. And so I would try to talk and I would like do stuff on my hands, like no or yes. And it was it was crazy. But I kept wondering, like, why do I keep getting this recurring dream, not realizing I was sleep the whole time?

Dr C 19:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Because when they left me at the at the hospital, we met with the physician, uh, the anesthesiologist. Thank you, anesthesiologist. That's the last conversation I remember. It's having that conversation, me eating a meal, and then like laying down. That's the last thing I remember. I remember Brandy and Chloe leaving. I do remember that. But I don't know, I just went to sleep, and then these dreams started happening. I'm thinking, I'm not even aware that a surgery has happened at the time, or days have gone by because I didn't wake up till what five and a days, five and a half days into six, six days. So I I'm thinking like I'm chilling.

Dr C 20:17

So wow, thank you for sharing that. And you know, Brandy, during the coma, how did you maintain a connection with Kareem? I mean, he was there physically, but he wasn't there consciously. So, what was your how how did you do that?

SPEAKER_05 20:30

Well, what did how did you so I never left Kareem's side for the most part? They had to literally kick me out every day. So I was right at his bedside, I was holding his hand, I was talking to him, I was praying over him, I was sat, I was literally saturating him in prayer. Some of our other close friends that were there, including our pastor, you know, helped come pray over him as soon as he got out of surgery. We I put oil on his head and I declared the word of the Lord over his life. And I said, You are not leaving us. I said, The Lord has brought you way too far for you to leave us, like you're still a miracle, you're still alive. Because even then, the surgeon said the next 24 to 48 hours are extremely critical. This could go either way. So I said, I'm not believing that. I'm not believing that it's gonna go the other way. It's gonna go the way that God has planned for his life. And that's what I kept declaring over him. So even as he was sleeping, I would play worship music near his ear. I would hold his hand, I would kiss him, you know, I would tell him how much we love him, you know, talk about the kids, saying what they were doing, hoping that he would hear me, you know, even as he was sleeping. So I was hoping that he, if he heard me, that he would be fighting, you know, like fighting to get back to us. And I wrote out scriptures and I put it all around his bed to make sure to like know, and even and the the thing that I know that the Lord was with him even through all of this, knowing that he was a walking miracle before the surgery. Is that most of the staff at the hospital were believers? And so once they knew that we were believers, they too would also pray for him when I was gone and pray and cover him. And sat, I I kid you not. And they would say to him, You, you know, kind of also when he came to, they were like, You're a miracle. And the Lord clearly has a plan for you because I've been we never seen this before. They will say that to us all the time. We would never see a person. We have never seen a person.

Dr C 22:28

I mean, I'm hearing the epitome of I do and sickness and health. People think I do is a one-time event, right? I do my wedding day, and it's you know, it's such a wonderful, it's wonderful day with our family and friends, and we're having a great time. But you know, saying yes is really about saying yes every day after the ceremony. So, how did this redefine what it truly means to you both? Uh, you know, that part about your vows in sickness and in health.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

I I think it was the conversation we had in the car when I went home.

SPEAKER_05 23:00

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

And we were just we were talking, and we were basically saying that our relationship is not going to be the same anymore.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

And this is after you came home from yeah, this is after he was an acute rehab. So getting the physical occupational therapies and all of that to get him stronger.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, so I I remember, and it's crazy because I passed by it yesterday, and then that memory just came back again. Part of me was had a result, like Kareem, you got a third chance. I am not even calling a second chance. You got a third chance here, and we need to make use of this. And so we were having a conversation like this is how we're this is how we're gonna live now. This is how we're gonna treat each other, this is how we're gonna treat the kids, this is how we're gonna communicate together. And I'll say in all transparency, that has it been perfect? No, it has been perfect, but we're not going back to where we were before I laid on that table.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

Yeah, and even for me, and I now that I'm thinking about this a little bit more, I felt like it this whole thing was prophetic from the beginning because obviously cream's a walking miracle. This is also my, I felt like Gloria was telling me your husband has been through two very significant traumatic surgeries that could have took taken his life. And so, what is gonna matter to you? Is it gonna matter to you that you're right when you're having an argument? It's gonna matter to you what he's not doing, you know, you know, just the things right that comes with marriage. But then there was a portion in his recovery where Kareem started to um like his skin started to slaw. They had no idea like why his skin starts start peeling, or if he had like a reaction to something. But in that moment, I felt like the Lord was revealing to me, like as his skin is coming off, the old is coming off of him, right? And he's getting brand new skin, right? So it's like brand new wines. So this is an opportunity that's also symbolic, not only for him, like he's you know, shedding off all of that old stuff, the the residue, the traumatic surgeries, you know, the issue with his heart, all of that is now old. And it's the same thing that's applied to your marriage. As as those dead things start to come off of him and the new skin is developing, is it's the same principle or same application to your marriage. The dead things are coming out of your out of your marriage, coming off of your marriage, and you guys are stepping into a new chapter, you know, without carrying that old residue. And so for me, the vows, it's like I'm living these things out, right? Like this, there's a difference between saying the vows and living them out.

Dr C 25:49

So let's I so let's talk a little bit about the kids because how did you decide when and what to tell Chloe and KJ? It had to be pretty impactful. Kareem, I know you're very active in their lives, you know, and so this had to be a very traumatic moment for them as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah, I I mean, I wish I can talk about the brunt of it. I mean, I'm I've seen it once I got home till even now, but I think Brandy's probably the best one to yeah, so it was hard.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

I I think that's the most simplest way I can say it. It was really hard. The night before Kareem had the surgery, like he mentioned, Chloe and I had visited him because I told him, I told her, I said, I think it'd be good for you to see your dad. And the interesting part is that she had a friend who had just lost her father, I think a couple of months ago. So she came into that just with a heaviness like, I think that's gonna be okay, but I'm still fearful that daddy may not make it. Like my friend's dad didn't make it. And so I remember we after we left him, like literally from the room, Chloe just got really sad. And then she just broke down. I mean, boo-hoo and crying in the in the hallway at Rochester Regional. And I just had to comfort her. She was just inconsolable. And she was like, My, I don't want daddy to die. I don't want daddy to die. Like, I need him to be here. So ultimately it was hard because they couldn't see him. They wanted to see him. KJ wanted him at his football games because Kareem is also one of their coaches on the on the team. So he was used to having Kareem there, and then now to not have Kareem there was very hard for him. Chloe was thinking about if my dad is even alive and if mommy's telling me the truth about whether or not daddy's okay. So it was really hard for them. So then to kind of prove to them, because I kept telling them that daddy's sleeping, daddy needs rest. And so he's kind of in a bad shape right now for you guys to see him, but he is here. Like he's just taking a little extra time to rest. But then after a month, they're like, Where's our dad? You know? And so Kareem was finally agreeable to let the kids see him. So I did FaceTime, he was crying, the kids were crying. It was just, it was a lot. But then once he got home, that's when we decided to, I think a week after he got home, decided to tell them the full truth. During our family meeting. Yeah, during our family meetings. Yes, we have family meetings where we check in with one another, just see how each other's doing. But we took that moment to allow the kids to be able to talk about their feelings in terms of the surgery, but then also to just be truthful about what actually had happened. And Chloe even said, I knew something was wrong. I knew something was wrong. Why didn't you just tell us? We're like, we couldn't tell you that your dad possibly could wasn't gonna make it within 24 to 48 hours. Like that would we knew that that would be debilitating, very hard conversation, but I think they appreciated the honesty. And just knowing that daddy's okay now and just looking at him, they're like, wow, we would never have thought he actually went through that, you know, compared to what he looks like now. But I think it did open up some more doors to have very open and honest communication with our children and to let them know that, you know, even though it may not have seemed fair that we kind of kept them separate or didn't tell them everything at once, we also were trying to safeguard them and their emotions. And so when Kareem, for our son's championship games, because they did so well over the season, they went to the championship game. We decided to surprise our son by having Kareem come to the game, and so I wheeled him up there, and of course he saw one of his that was dirt, that was dirt, dirt roll, kind of like yeah, and he and one of his fraternity brothers saw him, so he helped kind of push him up because it was hard to get him up there. But when I tell you, KJ's face just lit up like a Christmas tree, and even it was such an emotional reunion, not only for our son, but even for like the coaches, the coaches were crying because they weren't, we didn't tell anybody, we wanted to make it a very special occasion, so they were crying. Some of the parents of the team uh of KJ's teammates were crying because they kind of heard, but they didn't know, and so seeing him in the flesh, whole and heel, just did something to everybody, and then the kids played their hearts out, they really played their hearts out after seeing Kareem come, and then KJ was just on fire. Yeah, he was on fire. Yeah, and it was a the type of tackle that's like boom. And so I remember I have took a picture of them because I wanted to really capture the moment and I wasn't trying to do it to like just post it on Facebook, but I'm like, I don't think people really understand the the depth of the emotions within that picture I posted of them two looking at each other and they're both crying because it was just such a a beautiful moment that a son and his father were able to reunite after not knowing whether or not they'll be they'll be able to have a second chance at seeing each other again. So it was just a very beautiful moment, and you know, we're we're just straightforward grateful for our kids and them being a bit resilient, you know, in trying to do it.

Dr C 31:08

Just to be whole again, yeah, regardless of the recovery ahead, just to be whole again. I mean, I'm sure that was just so so fulfilling and well the the funny part about that, real quick, is that so I had been home probably for like for a week.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

So I I gave him a week, I was like, I just got here, so I'm gonna chill. I'm just gonna kind of let things be. And then like dad mode kicked in. And so they were like, Oh my god, daddy.

SPEAKER_05 31:43

Yeah, he did. He started fussing, he's like, Oh, what's this? What's this on the floor here? Did you do your homework? And Chloe's like, Dad, you just got you just had surgery. Can you please give us give us some time?

Dr C 31:56

Thank you for sharing. Like, that's such an inspirational moment, right? To to be able to go through all that and then show up at the game. And you didn't just inspire your children, you inspired everyone else around, right? So literally, God was God's miracle was witnessed by so many people, believers, non-believers, yeah, who knows, right? What someone's belief is. But also, I'm thinking that whoever was going through any difficulty in their life, seeing this individual that they've known, seeing him come through and um show up at that game, I'm sure the impact that you probably will never know. You probably will never know the endless impact and the ripple that that may have had for so many people. And so it's one thing, right, to be inspired, but then it's another to have the stamina to sustain that inspiration day after day. So this is where we flourish. And in my work with organizations and individuals, I find high performance and survival requires a strategy to mitigate burnout. So, Brandy, as the caregiver, the gatekeeper, you had to navigate complex systems, the hospital, your your support network, your home, your children, and your own still your own professional job, right? And so let's talk about some practical wellness strategies. What did you do to kind of take care of yourself and continue to take care of your children?

SPEAKER_05 33:22

I'd probably say the one well, there's a a couple of things. The one consistent thing was prayer. I I mean, I'm a prayer, I pray. I just it's just naturally a part of who I am and my fabric is that I am an intercessor, but I also just come to the Lord as his daughter, and I just pray. And so in that moment, I was like, Lord, I am leaning on you like never before. And so I would pray like all throughout the day, every day. I mean, every day. And it got to the point I didn't even realize. I guess some of our windows are like slightly open or have some level of exposure because we have air conditioning units in there. And I guess I was praying so heavy and so loud that my neighbor heard me. And she said she was sitting on her porch, and she said, even though the prayer wasn't about her, she even felt impacted by what I was saying and the things I was declaring, not just for Kareem's health, but just in general. Like I was just going, I had one of those days I was just going in and going in heavy. And she was like, Yeah, I heard you. And she was like, You just, you, you refreshed my spirit. And then even when other people would call and check in on him, I was always felt led to pray. And then the other part was really leaning into my community. I am the type of person I'm almost hyper-vigilant when it comes to independence. And so I don't really like to ask people for help. I also realized, too, the way that people were just covering us, caring for us, supporting us, taking KJ to his practices, you know, making sure that we have food, making sure that we have money, raising money for him, you know, in terms of offsetting some of the costs, because, you know, both of our salaries were impacted because you don't even get me started on state, you know, the the leave pay. But I mean, those were very real things I had to deal with. And so instead of being ashamed and somewhat embarrassed in terms of asking for help, I'm like, this is what my community is here for. You know, I need to, I need to lean on them. So I had to check myself about that, like just allowing people to genuinely love on us and care for us. So I would probably say prayer, leaning in on your community and just allowing yourself to be vulnerable. I think sometimes too, when we're in situations like this, and often I feel like especially women hear this like, oh, you're so strong. Like, you gotta be strong, you gotta, you know, you gotta be there because you know, essentially now everybody's relying on you. And I'm like, no, my strength comes in being vulnerable. I can't do this today. I don't want to provide you with an update. I don't want anybody to contact me today because I've had literally 45 calls and 25 text messages I have to respond to. And so honoring my boundaries, you know, along with my vulnerability was a big thing for me.

Dr C 36:23

So let's let's talk a little bit about you know the evolve pillar, evolution. So the idea of not just bouncing back, but growing forward, and that's what I'm hearing you all talk about. You're not the same couple that you were before the surgery, you're a different, it's a new normal. You're a different couple, understanding, having different ideas of what you want to spend your time doing, leaning in and pouring into. So, Kareem, you went from being the provider to being provided for in the most intimate ways. What was the most challenging part of experiencing your wife as your caretaker? How did that help you evolve as her husband and as a man? Say nice things.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Uh, where do I want to start with this one? Well, I I think the very first thing to address is it was hard at first. It got easy after a while, but it was hard having her tell me what to do. It was a lot of did you do this, did you do that? And it wasn't like before when it was like the collection, it was like, no, you gotta take this, you gotta do this, did you talk to this person? Nope, go talk to them. It was just telling me like what I had to do. All right, lay down. Put the phone down, don't talk to anybody, go to sleep. It was like, it was like having another parent in the house. And and I was not the other parent. So I think that was that was difficult. But over time, I just got I was okay with it because I knew that she had my best interest at heart. I knew that she had things under control, even if if she didn't, I didn't know. And the fact that in order for me to recover well, I had to be able to lay down my machismo, right? My masculine energy in a sense where I had to be okay with letting somebody else help me to heal and to recovery and to recover. And I think that's really difficult, especially for somebody like me. I grew up around men. I grew up with a dad, with a grandfather. I'm just so used to the men being the ones who would lead and be the ones who would just be at the the forefront, and I couldn't be that. I had to be the one in the back. I had to be the one to, you know, take her advice in terms of like when it came to health and to so that was difficult. And I think it's really, really important for us as men to understand that when we say, you know, through sickness or and through or through health, or and through health, that you never imagine that you're gonna be the one that's sick, and that the other person will have to be the one to take care of actually, I shouldn't even say have to, that other person choose to take care of you until you recover back. And I'm just glad that my wife chose to be the one to help me recover and for and to help me in this healing process and this journey.

Dr C 39:42

So, Kareem, how has your definition of a successful day changed?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Oh my gosh, that's a loaded question. I love it.

Dr C 39:53

How much long we got over as long as you need. So like, think about it. What are your non-negotiables now when it comes to um first and foremost?

SPEAKER_00 40:05

He leaned, he leaned in and says Okay, no job is worth my life.

Dr C 40:11

Say that, please say that again for the people in the back.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yes, please, no job, not a damn one, is worth my life. And I I can say that, and Brandy can attest to it because I love to work. He does, like I love to go to work, I love the idea of work, I love the ebbs and flows of work. And after this experience, I realized if my destiny had been different, them people would have moved on, right? They'd have been like, oh, we're so sad that whatever, whatever, and they would have hired the next person, they would have kept going with their lives. So I made it a pact to myself and really to the Lord that what I need to focus on right now is I need to focus on the person right here, the two children, and the one and a half dog that we have. That's an inside joke that nobody knows about. But anyway, she got a dog while I was in the hospital. So he ain't right.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

We'll have to have a part two since we have to have a part two of this.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Second thing is is that we will spend, I I we we we've talked about this that we really need to take the time to spend more energy into our children. Well, into us. Let's just start with that, into us, and but we had been working on that, and now the children, because the children went through such a traumatic experience that, like Brandy said, we're kind of seeing some of the doors that were opened up as a result of that. So, like yesterday, took my daughter to breakfast and took my both of them to the basketball game. It seems very small, but it's actually big in their eyes because they're like, we have daddy. He's here with us, he's spending time with us, and not to say that that wasn't happening before, but now there's more intentionality behind it. Yes, yes, you know, and then I will say lastly, is that just appreciate life. Love your wife, love your partner, love your kids, love the dog, even if you don't want one of them. Love your family, love your family members, love your friends, love your enemies because this is all we have. Once our time of existence is done, then we go off riding off to the sunset, and hopefully we get the we we meet the other saints in the sky. Like, so we're gonna live this life, and we're gonna take it one day at a time. Yeah, and stress, as soon as I feel an inch of stress, like I did this week, I'm like, I just fall back. I fall back, I sleep, I rest, I let the prayer music play, and I just get myself down because stress is what almost took me out. That's that that was the I would say the theme, at least in terms of just like health-wise, is that I was too stressed. I was too stressed out, and I I know where the stress started, and it started almost 10 years ago. Wow, and then time just went by and I didn't we didn't tackle it in the proper way, and here we are at this point. But I promise you this, we're not going back.

Dr C 43:34

And so I'm loving what you're saying because that really is what we need to get back to, right? How how am I living this one life that I have where it brings joy to me, and that joy can ripple and affect and impact others? And I and we don't I don't think we see it that way. I don't, and a lot of times we believe that we're not deserving of joy or happiness, and and and we tend to To always give, give, give, but never pour back in. And what I'm hearing you say is that you've changed that in your life. And it sounds like you both intentionally, that's your new normal, right? We're going to pour into each other. We're going to pour into our family because that is ultimately what matters the most. The income is going to come and go, it's going to ebb and flow. Stress will come and go, ebb and flow, but you're anchored in your foundation, and that is your family. And that's what I'm hearing. And so I thank you for sharing that. Wow. This has been this has been amazing. We do need a part two. We do. So we're going to end this with one final question, right? So, what's the single most important message you want the listeners to walk away with regarding navigating a medical crisis or a crisis as a team, as a partnership? Because you both had to give up control and autonomy. Some of you, one of you assumed more of it during the during the crisis, but then you had to find how do you how do you recalibrate, right? How do you calibrate the responsibilities so that you both become a team again tackling life? So, what would you say to anyone listening that is going through a crisis and how they can really anchor themselves in the theory of a partnership to get through it?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

That's a good question. Yeah. You want me to?

SPEAKER_05 45:25

Yeah, I'll just say one, trust your gut, trust your instincts, advocate for your spouse if need be. You are a team, right? So just because one is dealing with the medical crisis does not mean that you're not dealing with it. And so you have to remember that your spouse's life is a priority. And so even if they may have fears or trepidations, try to support them through that so that way you could get down to the crux of what's going on. Also, push back if needed with providers to make sure that your spouse is getting the best quality of care that they deserve so that way they can still be on this earth. And then probably twofold is remember your why in terms of when you're going through a crisis medically, financially, whatever that crisis may be. But if it's more so medically, just remember your why, that your spouse is not the enemy when they're not following through on what they're supposed to do, but that there may be some level of fear that you have to walk through with that person and to provide level of support. And finally, to remember that God will anchor you, like he is ever present. And so when you do feel those moments of trepidation, fear, anxiety, being overwhelmed, feeling alone, isolated because you feel like people are not going to understand. He understands, right? So he's also known as Jehovah Rohi, the one that sees. So he's going to see what you're going through, but he also has the answers as well. And he will turn things around. Surely, if he could do it for my husband, he can do it for you and your family. And to remember that you guys are a walking blessed unit, right? So this is all very interconnected. He's not doing this alone because his name is Kareem Hayes. I am also a Hayes, right? So there's a responsibility that I have to my husband to support him and what he needs too, right? And sometimes maybe it's just quiet. Maybe it's just giving him that time to be alone, to process everything. Because, you know, hearing, at least in his case, having another open heart surgery, even though he was at peace with it compared to the first time, there's still something there, right? Like I have to go through this again. And so I just need to be present and also allow him to be vulnerable too, to be able to share what his concerns are and to be a safe space for him. So that's my biggest thing. Cultivate a safe space for your spouse. If you have children, cultivate a space, a safe space for them, depending on their ages and what is appropriate to share and not to share. But just know that you're not in this alone and to also tap into your communities. Allow people to help you. Allow the helper to be helped. You know, allow the one who pours to be poured into, allow the one who usually is there for everybody else be there for you. It is going to be critically important because, like my sis said, uh wellness is not singular. It's not a singular, you know. So you really need to tap into those supports to be able to help you get through these types of situations.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

So, what my advice would be is that it's okay to be a sign and to be a wonder and to be a miracle because understanding that it's not about you specifically, like, yes, you benefit from it, but it's about all the countless lives that are now going to benefit from seeing you. If they had a question about if God is real, they're looking at it. If they had a question that if God answers prayers, they're looking at it. They have a question that people can experience healing not only miraculously, but also incremental, because there's also incremental healing as well, they see it. So it just understand that we get what we ask for, and they're for us to live in that truth.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Thank you both. Thank you both so much.

Dr C 49:33

And Kareem, I know that you have also a podcast. Look, y'all got me crying. I know you also have a podcast called Bro Talk. Am I correct? Yes. All right. Can you tell us what it's about and how people could catch your podcast?

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Yeah, well, first thing, we couldn't have the podcast without our wives. So definitely want to make Brandy and the wives. We started it during the pandemic. We were sitting in our homes and we were like, we need some connection. We need some, we need an avenue for us to just kind of talk about things that we're going through. And so I contacted Isaac Bliss and Bail Smith, and then later on, Mark Guthrie, and I said, Hey, I have this idea for us to do a podcast, and then we could talk about things that we're going through. And so the major premise of our podcast is we talk about manhood, fatherhood, brotherhood, and then all the other things in between. And really, it's a space for us to be vulnerable. It's we've cried on the show, we've been angry on the show. Really have a space for men to be able to see other men using our different stories in order to reach somebody, in order to have somebody think differently, maybe about their relationship, think differently with how they're raising their kids. And so that's why we we started Bro Talk. And happily enough, we've been going for this. Is our sixth year now of doing this? So we're very, very thankful. And yeah, we just we're blessed to have it. And we're on Mondays at 9 p.m.

Dr C 51:05

So all right, and where can people find you? Mondays at 9 p.m.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

We're on Facebook live and we're also on YouTube live as well.

Dr C 51:11

Beautiful, beautiful. Definitely want the audience to know that and catch catch those episodes. And I have a feeling that a book is in the making here.